Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

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WH-Reaper
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Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Sat May 31, 2014 12:54 am

Hello,
I thought about this question and was not sure about it, so I figured I would ask. What "improvements" against vanilla will be integrated in High rock? By these improvements, I mean some mods for MW that many people take as standard. I'll try to throw some examples, although I'm quite sure that answer to most of them will be no. But it should show clearly what I mean.

From screenshots, I suppose high-res textures are one of these improvements.
What about generic guard NPC used all around vs. guard lists with unique guards?
NPCs with animations from Animated MW?
BBfied clothing and armor? (I guess these will depend mainly on available assets)
Book rotate and weapon rotate scripts? (I'm quite sure there will be no to these, but these were actually the first examples that popped into my head)
Animated containers?

EDIT:
High-res textures: YES
Higher poly models: YES
Diversity guards: YES
NPC animations: Probably NO
BB Apparel: YES
Book rotate, weapon rotate: Probably NO
Animated containers: YES, if someone will be able to animate them
Graphic herbalism: Probably YES
Mannequins: Probably NO
Horses: YES
IndyBank-like banks: NO
Last edited by WH-Reaper on Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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SGMonkey
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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby SGMonkey » Sat May 31, 2014 1:42 am

This is actually something that's come up on IRC in the past but never posted. So thanks for asking.

High res textures, yeah of course. Generally higher poly models also (within reason though).

Not 100% sure what you mean here. You mean individually named guards as opposed to them all just being called something like "Daggerfall Guard"? If so, then this will be done the same as it is in Morrowind and Skyrim. Generic name, but with a decent amount of variation. Pretty sure they could be added to a random list.

NPC animations. Personally not a huge fan. I don't find a lot of the things taking place very fitting with Morrowind. A patch for this however is more than welcome when the time comes.

All armour and clothing will be BB compatible. Simply because it's such a popular mod in the community, and its the general consensus across all the province mods that this is the case. Also, BB clothes work fine with vanilla bodies as far as im aware.

Book rotate. Honestly not sure. Not used the mod myself. Will have to try it out. Not sure of the pro's and cons of this. As in how heavy the scripts are and what not.

Same as books. However this is something I really do want from the get go. Only problem here is I have no time/want to animate them. I would really like this from the start though.


Some other mods I can think of also are CoM, graphic herbalism. Personally, love Graphic Herbalism, and its another I think should be added from the start. But I'm not sure how popular it is and if everyone would want it in from the start. And CoM. Nope, never, not for me. haha

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Sat May 31, 2014 2:09 am

By unique guards I meant guard diversity, i.e. same name, different heads/hair/possibly weapons etc.

Good to hear about the armor and clothing, as I hate the barbie thingy player is turned into when wearing vanilla greaves/pants.

I actually have not looked at the scripts myself much. But this can be made as separate patch at any point.

Maybe someone who worked on original AM would lend a hand?

Love graphic herbalism, definitely support this.

EDIT: One more thing: mannequins? (In expensive clothing/armor shops or for player usage)

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby SGMonkey » Sat May 31, 2014 10:43 am

Never used mannequin mods for Morrowind. Again, not sure how well they work. Will have to investigate them.

Not sure what I think to there being mannequin's in Tamriel in general, but I guess TES V has them. Didn't seem too out of place, and people seem to live them. Maybe just like you say, expensive clothing shops. I dunno, just seems a bit.... cheesy. haha, depends what everyone else thinks.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:03 am

Unfortunatelly, none of the mannequin mods is flawless. The best I know about is Cali's BB mannequins. They turn head to NPCs that get close (luckily they at least don't react to player). But they have only one "classic" pose. Mannequins that allow for various poses like weapon drawn have few more drawbacks - the draw weapon animation is forced by starting and stopping combat with player, which results in battle music for short time and player can see them draw out the weapon.

Yeah, just remembered one more thing. It doesn't specifically fit into this category, but it is not worth starting a new thread - Horses. Will this mod include them? I actually wonder what opinion on this matter was taken by ShotN and P:C.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby SGMonkey » Mon Jun 02, 2014 3:14 am

Yeah, mannequin's sound awkward.

As for horses, most definitely. There are a lot of horses in High Rock from what I know. Pretty sure Muspila has some nice ones he made/altered for SHOTN.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:33 pm

Great to hear that :)

I updated the main post with results - if I got something wrong, just say and I'll fix that.

One last thing I just remembered: I read somewhere (as I did no play Daggerfall) that there were banks in High Rock. Are there any plans to implement soething like IndyBank?

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby SGMonkey » Mon Jun 02, 2014 6:48 pm

Not heard of IndyBank until now. I doubt we will be integrating that to High Rock.

As for banks in High Rock. I see no reason why not, but I don't know what reason there should be for them being used. In Daggerfall, gold has a weight, whereas it doesn't weigh anything in Morrowind. So the physical buildings should be in game, but their actual use. I'm not sure.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby Melchior Dahrk » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:23 pm

Just in case you weren't already aware, horses for the player are kind of awkward in Morrowind, too.

Investing and earning interest at banks sounds like a decent use of banks in my opinion. But I don't know if banking is as much a Breton thing as it might be in Cyrodil. I always enjoyed IndyBank - but I wouldn't necessarily use it as a basis. But maybe just take the functions it uses as inspiration to make the banks feel more integrated and "quest-like". Or just make eye-candy banks with no usage - I'm not trying to push one way or another.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:12 pm

SGMonkey wrote:Not heard of IndyBank until now. I doubt we will be integrating that to High Rock.

As for banks in High Rock. I see no reason why not, but I don't know what reason there should be for them being used. In Daggerfall, gold has a weight, whereas it doesn't weigh anything in Morrowind. So the physical buildings should be in game, but their actual use. I'm not sure.


Okay :)

Melchior Dahrk wrote:Just in case you weren't already aware, horses for the player are kind of awkward in Morrowind, too.

Investing and earning interest at banks sounds like a decent use of banks in my opinion. But I don't know if banking is as much a Breton thing as it might be in Cyrodil. I always enjoyed IndyBank - but I wouldn't necessarily use it as a basis. But maybe just take the functions it uses as inspiration to make the banks feel more integrated and "quest-like". Or just make eye-candy banks with no usage - I'm not trying to push one way or another.


Yeah, I know about horses. It is such a shame. I wondered why the sitting cannot be done simply by new animation (like NPCs reading books in AM etc.).

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:23 am

Just thought of another one. This is probably not entirely fitting for this thread, but I did not want to create a separate thread just to ask. What about heads? Will vanilla heads be used, or some of the numerous head collections?

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby SGMonkey » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:30 am

For now. Vanilla heads. Eventually however, resources or new heads are more than welcome. So long as they don't look like a photograph of a celebrity stretched and pasted over a generic head model OR like an anime/emo character. haha

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby worsas » Tue Jun 10, 2014 3:47 pm

Animated Containers or Graphic Herbalism are two things I have never bothered about myself. SHOTN and P:C has none of them included, at least. But they could be patched in at any point later. I have modified caits horses for SHOTN, but they are only used for fast travel carriage. The clothing I made for SHOTN and P:C is compatible with both BB and vanilla bodies.

I and most of the other modders at the two province mods generally try to stay as undefined and open as possible as regards such expansions, even if some extensions have found their way into the base mod though (Grass, high res textures, bb-compatibility)

Now if SGMonkey decides to include animated containers and graphic herbalism from the beginning, fine with me.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:03 pm

From what I understand, the biggest issue of Animated containers and Graphic herbalism is the lack of people that would create the meshes and animations.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby Melchior Dahrk » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:53 pm

Creating Graphic Herbalism meshes for flora is typically incredibly simple. Much simpler than animated containers anyway.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby MoochinCapuchin » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:41 pm

Melchior Dahrk wrote:Investing and earning interest at banks sounds like a decent use of banks in my opinion. But I don't know if banking is as much a Breton thing as it might be in Cyrodil. I always enjoyed IndyBank - but I wouldn't necessarily use it as a basis. But maybe just take the functions it uses as inspiration to make the banks feel more integrated and "quest-like". Or just make eye-candy banks with no usage - I'm not trying to push one way or another.


From UESP it looks as if the Bretons originally took over High Rock through trade, not violence, so banking doesn’t seem all that unlikely. I feel like banks could be implemented in a few cool ways (in addition to being able to deposit money there)

- If High Rock includes player-owned housing in some of the cities, the properties could be purchased at a bank instead of from the ruling family of that kingdom.

- I think a bank could be the source of some miscellaneous quests, as long as they were a little deeper than “fetch quests.” Maybe some quests similar to the Widow Vabdus quest for the Legion. I can easily picture a corrupt Breton banker throwing out some morally questionable assignments.

- Banks could have vaults similar to the house vaults found in Vivec

I think the hardest part of including banks would be keeping them from feeling too “modern” or feeling too “gamey.” Plus include anything nice in a bank runs the risk of some player with the amulet of shadows abusing it, but I don’t think there is much that can be done about that.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:19 pm

Good points, MoochinCapuchin.

I just thought of another one - Windows glow. Also popular and widely used AFAIK. Opinions?

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby WH-Reaper » Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:29 pm

Just in case someone would like to take a peak, I found nice horse models here: http://mw.modhistory.com/download-56-15061

I also found quite nice shields that might serve as inspiration during creation of different knight orders, but I'm not sure if such stuff is wanted here.

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Re: Integrated improvements against vanilla MW

Postby Melchior Dahrk » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:28 am

Just an FYI on those horses: I haven't followed up on this, but knowing that they come from Fullrest and that Akavir is the author (who has converted other creatures in the past), I can be pretty certain that those are converted from some other game. Now, maybe they're from The Witcher or something, in which case they would be okay to use. But, would be something worth checking into before committing to using them.


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